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Post by fourwaymiss on Nov 17, 2016 7:46:57 GMT
Another thing that occurs to me. How many articles have we read in the various American golf magazines about Michelle Wie? It seems like her every move is dissected relentlessly. And even she is nothing compared to the overcoverage the top male golfers get. OK, but when Inbee Park qualified for the Hall of Fame and won the Olympic gold medal this year, did we get even one article about her? Not just about her triumph in Rio, but an article that profiles her, that tells us about her history, who she is, how she got so good, anything? I didn't find it. I didn't even find a mention of her in either Golf Digest or Golf Magazine after Rio. I understand. She isn't glamorous. She doesn't move the needle or whatever. But she is news. She is history. If you aren't even going to cover the best Koreans, what are the other Koreans to expect? And how can we get to know them if the golf press refuses to do its job? If you are looking for coverage of LPGA from golf publications, you are looking in the wrong place. They don't cover women's golf, PERIOD. Take the leading magazine, Golf Digest for example. From what I can recall from the last ten year, (correct me if I am wrong) , we have my future wife and Lexi on the cover. And Lexi got on the cover basically for her side boobs. Sure, they have "selected" players for some instructional column every issue, e.g. Anna Rawson, Beatrice Recari, Paula , Jessica Korda, where they dish out tips on how to get out of greenside bunker, and making sure they show plenty of legs while doing so. I guess we have a legitimate complaint here as there are some nice legs from the Korean players too.
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Post by fourwaymiss on Nov 17, 2016 8:04:02 GMT
I do recall this. I think it was on ESPN, which might explain why we don't see her, given that ESPN does not cover much women's golf anymore. As for Pearl not being good enough? If they were willing to put up with Stupples and her endless coming-up-to-speed (or heaven help us, Mary Bryant), they could have committed to Pearl learning as she goes. Stupples is solid. She doesn't pull any punches like grandma Judy tends to do these days. I know she speaks too fast, and with her accent, it can be hard to the ears for 3 hours. A bilingual interviewer may not be the answer. Most of the times the players understand the question well, they just have a hard time articulating their response. And a lot of the puns and playfulness from the player's part are lost in the translation.
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Post by fourwaymiss on Nov 17, 2016 8:24:23 GMT
The most popular Seattle Mariner for several years was Ichiro, who could not speak a word of English at the time. Darn fun to watch, though. English speaking skills are overrated. I like watching Hideki Matsuyama golf....he's a BEAST.....oh wait Ma.....he used an interpreter in his last interview...how shameful. We are talking about popularity here, not watchability. There is absolutely nothing wrong with not speaking the language, but then you also has to accept the fact that it comes with a price of your marketability. You think David Ortiz would have become so popular if he only spoke Ichiro level of English ? Sure, Big Papi hit the long ball and played for a big market championship team. But Ichiro unique skills in his prime, like u said, was quite a spectacle too. And yeah, just wait for Matsuyama to be a staple of Golf Channel coverage real soon.
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Post by fourwaymiss on Nov 17, 2016 9:13:59 GMT
I don't buy this. The criticism used to be: they are all robots out there, no emotion. Now that there are plenty of emotional Koreans, the problem is that their English language skills make them unrelatable? I feel like the Korean ladies are just as obvious types as the pop psychology descriptions you gave about the Americans. To wit: - So Yeon Ryu and Hee Young Park are bubbly - In Gee Chun has a lot of pressure on her, but seems to be having a great time win or lose. She grew up poor and had to work for everything she has. - Ha Na Jang has the best fist pump in the game. She finds a way to have a laugh, and it's contagious. - Sei Young Kim could break you in two and smile while doing it. - Amy Yang is nice (generous; gave an entire winner's check once to charity). Perhaps too nice: she's seems like the Charlie Brown of the Koreans sometimes. - Inbee Park is ruthless on the course. But she is in the midst of an epic love story with her coach/husband that has made her one of the greats of her generation. - IK Kim likes to play guitar, has taken cooking courses in France, can say she is hungry in about twenty different languages, is a rep for Special Olympics, and is super generous with her money. - NYC has worked really hard to engage with fans, making her recent struggles all the more poignant. No Korean has struggled more with the Korean press. You know what, I actually know most of the stuff about the players that you mentioned above. No, not from the bio pages of ss.com I learned them from GC telecast, and mostly from the greatest golf announcer who ever lived. They showed Youtube videos of SYK's taekwondo, Inky's guitar playing. They mentioned Inky's and Amy's big heart. Ha Na's soap episode with Dumbo. I am NOT saying they don't have a bias towards Americans, which is understandable. But you can't say they haven't made the effort. It is up to the individual players how far she wants to take it from there.
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Post by fourwaymiss on Nov 17, 2016 9:41:35 GMT
And most of them speak English decently. Inbee, IK, Amy and NYC are pretty close to fluent. So Yeon is getting there. In Gee, Ha Na, Hee Young and Sei Young are all easily understandable and occasionally surprise (I think Sei Young used the word 'synergy' recently). I think they have what it takes to be liked by American fans; let's see the American press meet them halfway and give them some of the same treatment we see Henderson and other foreigners get. While we are on the subject of English, we have a disagreement. Notice whenever the two main beat writers, Beth Ann Nichols and Randell Mell, need a thoughtful quote on a subject, who is their "go to" girls? From American side, it is usually Stacy. And from Korean side ? SYR You can almost count on it. IMO, only 3.5 Koreans right now can hold their own in an extensive interview, capable of giving insightful and thoughtful answers. Queen Bee, SYR and Inky. NYC is the 0.5. Queen Bee lived for an extensive period in US. Inky is world traveller, a leading candidate to become the most interesting woman on tour. Which makes SYR a language genius. But as I said before, it could be a chicken and egg thing, SYR loves to fully experience this tour life, which drives her to study the language hard. The others that you mentioned are competent in "golf English" , eg. "one shot at a time", "focus on my own game", and a little bit more.
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Post by fourwaymiss on Nov 17, 2016 9:56:32 GMT
I think they have what it takes to be liked by American fans; let's see the American press meet them halfway and give them some of the same treatment we see Henderson and other foreigners get. The proper comparison to Brooke Henderson is Lydia. People LOVES teenage prodigies (Need look not further than my future wife). I have to say GC has shown Lydia plenty of love so far too. And for all practical purpose, most of us sees Lydia as Asian. And I don't necessarily see GC giving special attention to Europeans over Koreans either. I don't think there was any European in the "awe summer" promo ?
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Post by philknj on Nov 17, 2016 17:53:10 GMT
The article has a quote from Judy Rankin, speculating that the current generation of Americans hasn't produced a great putter. My first reaction was that she was just grasping at straws...but, maybe she stumbled over the truth. Check out the latest American Collapse article: www.espn.com/espnw/sports/article/18062758/the-shaky-state-women-golf-game-americaI don't pay much attention to the LPGA stats, so this section stunned me: At age 21, Thompson, who won her first LPGA event at 16, has seven career wins, including a major. Rarely, though, is her putting as good as her powerful ball-striking. Thompson is ranked 61st in putts per green in regulation for 2016.
Inkster laughed when informed that, at age 56, she is the only American in the top 10 in that important statistical category.
"Lexi and Gerina, too, they're good putters but not great putters," Inkster says. "You can say what you want about hitting the ball, but if you're not putting well, you're not going to win. When Lexi wins, she putts well. That's the bottom line. Most of the Asian players can roll the rock. That's where you make your living."***** Ask me to name a GREAT American putter that has joined the LPGA in the last 12 years...only one player comes to mind, Paula Creamer. She was T-3 in three of her first four LPGA season in PGIR...just crazy good...now she's 63rd. After checking the stats, I underrated Stacy Lewis in PGIR. I had no idea she was 1st in 2015! You wouldn't know it from her demeanor. She's down to 20th this year.
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Post by HappyFan on Nov 17, 2016 18:06:46 GMT
And most of them speak English decently. Inbee, IK, Amy and NYC are pretty close to fluent. So Yeon is getting there. In Gee, Ha Na, Hee Young and Sei Young are all easily understandable and occasionally surprise (I think Sei Young used the word 'synergy' recently). I think they have what it takes to be liked by American fans; let's see the American press meet them halfway and give them some of the same treatment we see Henderson and other foreigners get. While we are on the subject of English, we have a disagreement. Notice whenever the two main beat writers, Beth Ann Nichols and Randell Mell, need a thoughtful quote on a subject, who is their "go to" girls? From American side, it is usually Stacy. And from Korean side ? SYR You can almost count on it. IMO, only 3.5 Koreans right now can hold their own in an extensive interview, capable of giving insightful and thoughtful answers. Queen Bee, SYR and Inky. NYC is the 0.5. Queen Bee lived for an extensive period in US. Inky is world traveller, a leading candidate to become the most interesting woman on tour. Which makes SYR a language genius. But as I said before, it could be a chicken and egg thing, SYR loves to fully experience this tour life, which drives her to study the language hard. The others that you mentioned are competent in "golf English" , eg. "one shot at a time", "focus on my own game", and a little bit more. With all due respect, I have personally interviewed a number of the Koran ladies for golf publications in the past, including several, like Seon Hwa Lee, for whom English was not their first language. I managed to squeeze some pretty interesting comments out of them, and these were lengthy interviews. It can be done, but if you ask questions that require ten paragraphs of build up before you get to the meat of the question, you are going to lose a player whose native language is not English.
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Post by HappyFan on Nov 17, 2016 18:10:31 GMT
The article has a quote from Judy Rankin, speculating that the current generation of Americans hasn't produced a great putter. My first reaction was that she was just grasping at straws...but, maybe she stumbled over the truth. Check out the latest American Collapse article: www.espn.com/espnw/sports/article/18062758/the-shaky-state-women-golf-game-americaI don't pay much attention to the LPGA stats, so this section stunned me: At age 21, Thompson, who won her first LPGA event at 16, has seven career wins, including a major. Rarely, though, is her putting as good as her powerful ball-striking. Thompson is ranked 61st in putts per green in regulation for 2016.
Inkster laughed when informed that, at age 56, she is the only American in the top 10 in that important statistical category.
"Lexi and Gerina, too, they're good putters but not great putters," Inkster says. "You can say what you want about hitting the ball, but if you're not putting well, you're not going to win. When Lexi wins, she putts well. That's the bottom line. Most of the Asian players can roll the rock. That's where you make your living."***** Ask me to name a GREAT American putter that has joined the LPGA in the last 12 years...only one player comes to mind, Paula Creamer. She was T-3 in three of her first four LPGA season in PGIR...just crazy good...now she's 63rd. After checking the stats, I underrated Stacy Lewis in PGIR. I had no idea she was 1st in 2015! You wouldn't know it from her demeanor. She's down to 20th this year. I wouldn't say that most of the Asians are great putters, but at the very least they are decent (Ariya for instance). Some really are great (Inbee obviously, In Gee, and if you want to include her, Lydia). But I can't think of any that are terrible like Lexi, Wie or Lincicome often are. Even So Yeon Ryu, who misses a lot of makeable birdies, is not usually three jacking from four feet.
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Post by HappyFan on Nov 17, 2016 18:16:13 GMT
I think they have what it takes to be liked by American fans; let's see the American press meet them halfway and give them some of the same treatment we see Henderson and other foreigners get. The proper comparison to Brooke Henderson is Lydia. People LOVES teenage prodigies (Need look not further than my future wife). I have to say GC has shown Lydia plenty of love so far too. And for all practical purpose, most of us sees Lydia as Asian. And I don't necessarily see GC giving special attention to Europeans over Koreans either. I don't think there was any European in the "awe summer" promo ? This will be an interesting test. Who will get more attention next year: Swedish Symetra Tour star Sagstrom, or top-ten-in-the-world powerhouse Sung Hyun Park? In a fair world, they would get at worst equal coverage, but in all honesty, Park should be far more in the spotlight given her resume (when was the last time a Symetra Tour graduate, even a superstar, amounted to anything on the LPGA?). My bet, though, is that Sagstrom will get much more attention. Yeah, Park doesn't speak English. But nonetheless... we are talking a player who has all the potential to be a Ya Ni-in-2011 world beater. She deserves the pub!
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Post by HappyFan on Nov 17, 2016 18:18:42 GMT
Ha Na used the words 'finale to the season' in her Golf Central interview. I think she's a little better than rote golf cliché personally.
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Post by philknj on Nov 17, 2016 18:21:20 GMT
The proper comparison to Brooke Henderson is Lydia. People LOVES teenage prodigies (Need look not further than my future wife). I have to say GC has shown Lydia plenty of love so far too. And for all practical purpose, most of us sees Lydia as Asian. And I don't necessarily see GC giving special attention to Europeans over Koreans either. I don't think there was any European in the "awe summer" promo ? (when was the last time a Symetra Tour graduate, even a superstar, amounted to anything on the LPGA?). Answer: Mi Hyang Lee...and I thought mr3putt was the only evil person of this forum.
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Post by mr3putt on Nov 17, 2016 18:25:13 GMT
While we are on the subject of English, we have a disagreement. Notice whenever the two main beat writers, Beth Ann Nichols and Randell Mell, need a thoughtful quote on a subject, who is their "go to" girls? From American side, it is usually Stacy. And from Korean side ? SYR You can almost count on it. IMO, only 3.5 Koreans right now can hold their own in an extensive interview, capable of giving insightful and thoughtful answers. Queen Bee, SYR and Inky. NYC is the 0.5. Queen Bee lived for an extensive period in US. Inky is world traveller, a leading candidate to become the most interesting woman on tour. Which makes SYR a language genius. But as I said before, it could be a chicken and egg thing, SYR loves to fully experience this tour life, which drives her to study the language hard. The others that you mentioned are competent in "golf English" , eg. "one shot at a time", "focus on my own game", and a little bit more. With all due respect, I have personally interviewed a number of the Koran ladies for golf publications in the past, including several, like Seon Hwa Lee, for whom English was not their first language. I managed to squeeze some pretty interesting comments out of them, and these were lengthy interviews. It can be done, but if you ask questions that require ten paragraphs of build up before you get to the meat of the question, you are going to lose a player whose native language is not English.
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Post by fourwaymiss on Nov 17, 2016 18:29:01 GMT
I wouldn't say that most of the Asians are great putters, but at the very least they are decent (Ariya for instance). Some really are great (Inbee obviously, In Gee, and if you want to include her, Lydia). Yes, if you throw Dumbo's name in the mix , then I very much want to include the wunderkind, who is #1 in putting this year.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2016 18:33:53 GMT
The proper comparison to Brooke Henderson is Lydia. People LOVES teenage prodigies (Need look not further than my future wife). I have to say GC has shown Lydia plenty of love so far too. And for all practical purpose, most of us sees Lydia as Asian. And I don't necessarily see GC giving special attention to Europeans over Koreans either. I don't think there was any European in the "awe summer" promo ? This will be an interesting test. Who will get more attention next year: Swedish Symetra Tour star Sagstrom, or top-ten-in-the-world powerhouse Sung Hyun Park? In a fair world, they would get at worst equal coverage, but in all honesty, Park should be far more in the spotlight given her resume (when was the last time a Symetra Tour graduate, even a superstar, amounted to anything on the LPGA?). My bet, though, is that Sagstrom will get much more attention. Yeah, Park doesn't speak English. But nonetheless... we are talking a player who has all the potential to be a Ya Ni-in-2011 world beater. She deserves the pub! SHP should be the center of attention on the LPGA next year. If she doesn't have three victories by early August, Cann and Mogg have to be terminated.
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