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Post by urinara on Aug 6, 2015 11:41:09 GMT
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Post by centurion on Aug 6, 2015 14:20:54 GMT
An American veteran, Cristie Kerr, was compelled to say of South Koreans: “They are machines. They practice 10 hours a day.”
Park responded, “Then they should build better machines.” Seriously, I love this article. Over the years, it sounded like Americans were bitter when Koreans were dominating, and the Koreans just kind of sat back quietly. I'm glad Inbee bringing a little fight to the table, especially against the most bitter player to play on the LPGA Tour since Jan Stephensen.
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Post by HappyFan on Aug 6, 2015 16:56:48 GMT
Great article! Thanks for posting it. From what I've seen over the years, it seems like the Koreans are a bit more candid and less politically correct when they give interviews in Korea than when they do it over here. But those interviews don't get translated, so Americans aren't privy to those opinions. Parsing the article, here are the major points. 1. Inbee is being criticized by a bunch of American press (especially the Golf Channel) who seem gung ho on denigrating her Grand Slam. I agree 100% that if it had been Paula Creamer who had done this, they would not be making such a big deal about this nitpicky point. 2. I agree with her point that she has a career Grand Slam (room for argument, of course!). For several reasons. First, the LPGA says so, which trumps the press opinions. Second, if you look at the list of players who have slams, every one of them has at least four. Now, some of them must have played at times in the LPGA history when there were three or even two Majors, yet we don't see anyone given credit for a Slam for winning the two Majors from those days. I think this indicates that what Slam really means is winning four different Majors. If you want to make meaningful historical comparisons, it's unfair to hold Inbee to a higher standard than the others. Imagine Se Ri retired in 2013, and after a decade of trying to complete the Slam, she finally won the Nabisco that year. Nope, sorry, no Grand Slam for you, we have a new one now. Tough luck? No, that's totally lame! Se Ri would have one IMO. 3. I guess her legends-having-to-win-another-Major argument doesn't work because the way it works is, once you get the Slam, you have it even if the Majors change. But as my Se Ri example shows, it would be lame to penalize someone who has spent most of her career operating under one system if it suddenly changes. Since she was a little girl, Inbee dreamed of winning four Majors, and through no choice of her own, that's suddenly not enough? But it was for all those other golfers? Weak sauce. 4. The bit about the Americans being jealous is spot on, and I also agree that the Koreans would probably feel annoyed/threatened if the shoe were on the other foot. 5. The 'machine' comment. Oi vey. Machine/Robot has been used as shorthand to dehumanize the accomplishments of the Asians in much the same way as 'natural athlete' was used once upon a time to imply that African American athletes had an unfair advantage. They are most clearly not machines. They work hard and have to deal with far more flack from American press, fans and culture than entitled Trump-loving Crusty Kerr could even imagine. They learn a new language, adopt to new foods, and learn to interact with people very different than they are. And by and large do it joyfully, with a smile and with great class. Way to go, Inbee, for telling it like it is and flinging the robot comment back in Kerr's face. Quote of the year.
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Post by fourwaymiss on Aug 6, 2015 19:10:13 GMT
(For full disclosure, I am neither Korean nor American, as you can probably tell from my writing. I am just a big fan of the LPGA)
Mike Whan is doing a great job except on this grand slam debacle. By coming out with an official definition of 4 majors as "grand slam" and 5 as "super slam". It just opens up a can of worms and invites more ridicule to women's golf.
As someone on GC correctly pointed out, if Yanni Tseng wins the Evian next month, she would have the grand slam without winning the US Open, and that just doesn't sit right. And there were times when LPGA has 1, 2, and 3 majors. Wouldn't it be unfair to all those players who have won all there was to win?
That's why things like what constitutes a "grand slam" should be strictly left to the fans and discussion boards like this one.
And whether Inbee has the grand slam? It should be decided by herself, and by the fans. But not by the LPGA.
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Post by centurion on Aug 6, 2015 19:25:33 GMT
As someone on GC correctly pointed out, if Yanni Tseng wins the Evian next month, she would have the grand slam without winning the US Open, and that just doesn't sit right. Why not? It's American elite media that has decided that the US Women's Open is "the best" tournament in women's golf and that it is the must win for anyone to accomplish the Career Grand Slam. I don't get it. You don't see that in the men's game - all of the majors (with the exception of the PGA) has something about them that can make someone claim that it is "the best". Most will say The Masters is the "must win" tournament, even though it's the newest of the four. Organizations like the Golf Channel want to forget the Evian exists because they can't imagine a scenario where TWO of the biggest tournaments in the world are outside of the US. They also see money equals prestige. Money is nice, but that's all it is - winning the Women's Open doesn't get you any closer to the Hall of Fame, nor does it get you a longer invitation to play on Tour than the Evian does. Inbee is 100% accurate on this - if it were an American, we wouldn't have this conversation. Hell, if it were Lydia Ko, it wouldn't be a conversation. They refuse to accept that Inbee is the best golfer of this era, so they do everything they can to diminish her accomplishments.
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Post by fourwaymiss on Aug 6, 2015 19:51:29 GMT
Great article! Thanks for posting it. From what I've seen over the years, it seems like the Koreans are a bit more candid and less politically correct when they give interviews in Korea than when they do it over here. But those interviews don't get translated, so Americans aren't privy to those opinions. Parsing the article, here are the major points. 1. Inbee is being criticized by a bunch of American press (especially the Golf Channel) who seem gung ho on denigrating her Grand Slam. I agree 100% that if it had been Paula Creamer who had done this, they would not be making such a big deal about this nitpicky point. 2. I agree with her point that she has a career Grand Slam (room for argument, of course!). For several reasons. First, the LPGA says so, which trumps the press opinions. Second, if you look at the list of players who have slams, every one of them has at least four. Now, some of them must have played at times in the LPGA history when there were three or even two Majors, yet we don't see anyone given credit for a Slam for winning the two Majors from those days. I think this indicates that what Slam really means is winning four different Majors. If you want to make meaningful historical comparisons, it's unfair to hold Inbee to a higher standard than the others. Imagine Se Ri retired in 2013, and after a decade of trying to complete the Slam, she finally won the Nabisco that year. Nope, sorry, no Grand Slam for you, we have a new one now. Tough luck? No, that's totally lame! Se Ri would have one IMO. 3. I guess her legends-having-to-win-another-Major argument doesn't work because the way it works is, once you get the Slam, you have it even if the Majors change. But as my Se Ri example shows, it would be lame to penalize someone who has spent most of her career operating under one system if it suddenly changes. Since she was a little girl, Inbee dreamed of winning four Majors, and through no choice of her own, that's suddenly not enough? But it was for all those other golfers? Weak sauce. 4. The bit about the Americans being jealous is spot on, and I also agree that the Koreans would probably feel annoyed/threatened if the shoe were on the other foot. 5. The 'machine' comment. Oi vey. Machine/Robot has been used as shorthand to dehumanize the accomplishments of the Asians in much the same way as 'natural athlete' was used once upon a time to imply that African American athletes had an unfair advantage. They are most clearly not machines. They work hard and have to deal with far more flack from American press, fans and culture than entitled Trump-loving Crusty Kerr could even imagine. They learn a new language, adopt to new foods, and learn to interact with people very different than they are. And by and large do it joyfully, with a smile and with great class. Way to go, Inbee, for telling it like it is and flinging the robot comment back in Kerr's face. Quote of the year. HappyFan, I can understand this whole debate leaves a bad taste in Queen Bee's mouth. It is just unfortunate that in the "happiest day of her life", all people wanted to talk about is this grand slam mess. Responding to your points: 1, I don't feel there is an agenda/bias by the media either way. Golf channel had a panel discussion on this on MD and different opinions were expressed. It is a good subject for debate and certainly good for TV. I remember there was similar debates on whether Tiger won the "year slam" back in 2000. 5, As high-strung, moody, difficult ( and Trump loving ) as Cristie Kerr can be, I don't feel she means it in a demeaning way. "Machine" is probably a poor choice of word. But standing in her shoes: she is well into the back 9 of her career and just became a mother, basically just trying to collect checks every week, and hoping to catch lightning and wins once in a while. To me, it sounds more like a resignation that she can no longer keep up with the girls who beat balls 10 hours a day. Edit: Juli Inkster also expressed similar comment, but in a much less clumsy way. She said in the old days the practice range were usually so empty on a tournament Monday that she can set off bombs in it, and she "does not envy the young girls today". Implying the level of competition these days are so much higher , presumably because the Koreans has raised the bar for everybody. BTW, HappyFan , is that Faye Wong in your avatar ?
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Post by korean on Aug 6, 2015 23:46:15 GMT
If it isn't white entitlement then it is black proclaimed righteousness. Asians always have to play by the rule and work 2x harder than others just to get ahead in the land of Murica.
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Post by centurion on Aug 6, 2015 23:48:03 GMT
If it isn't white entitlement then it is black proclaimed righteousness. Asians always have to play by the rule and work 2x harder than others just to get ahead.
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Post by HappyFan on Aug 7, 2015 0:39:06 GMT
1, I don't feel there is an agenda/bias by the media either way. Golf channel had a panel discussion on this on MD and different opinions were expressed. It is a good subject for debate and certainly good for TV. I remember there was similar debates on whether Tiger won the "year slam" back in 2000. There is however, an 'official' Golfchannel opinion on this, that this does not count as a Grand Slam. Several of the commentators on Morning Drive mentioned that. Which struck me as kind of weird, but whatever. I will agree that there are several who come down on Inbee's side, notably Charlie Rhymer and it seems Jerry Foltz (I saw a tweet to that effect from him). 5, As high-strung, moody, difficult ( and Trump loving ) as Cristie Kerr can be, I don't feel she means it in a demeaning way. "Machine" is probably a poor choice of word. But standing in her shoes: she is well into the back 9 of her career and just became a mother, basically just trying to collect checks every week, and hoping to catch lightning and wins once in a while. To me, it sounds more like a resignation that she can no longer keep up with the girls who beat balls 10 hours a day. It sounded to me like a little bit or irritation or even entitlement: she wants to be able to put in a token amount of effort and make a ton of money. Sorry, Cristie, that's not going to cut it anymore. I do think that 'robot' (I read somewhere this was the actual word she used, then it was changed to the less offensive 'machine', but they are both bad) has unfortunate connotations, but I'm not holding my breath waiting for her to apologize. [/quote] BTW, HappyFan , is that Faye Wong in your avatar ? Yup! From 2046, the Wong Kar Wai movie.
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Post by HappyFan on Aug 7, 2015 0:55:18 GMT
"Korean": I rarely do this (in fact, this is the first time on this new message board), but I chose to remove some of your recent posts as not being appropriate for this community. Please try to stick to discussions about golf topics in the future. Thanks!
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Post by korean on Aug 7, 2015 1:01:31 GMT
"Korean": I rarely do this (in fact, this is the first time on this new message board), but I chose to remove some of your recent posts as not being appropriate for this community. Please try to stick to discussions about golf topics in the future. Thanks! If you remove my posts then you should remove everybody else posts, non golf related jpeg pictures. My words was not explicit. Stop being a racist and learn something for a change white boy.
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Post by fourwaymiss on Aug 7, 2015 1:35:18 GMT
As someone on GC correctly pointed out, if Yanni Tseng wins the Evian next month, she would have the grand slam without winning the US Open, and that just doesn't sit right. Why not? It's American elite media that has decided that the US Women's Open is "the best" tournament in women's golf and that it is the must win for anyone to accomplish the Career Grand Slam. I don't get it. You don't see that in the men's game - all of the majors (with the exception of the PGA) has something about them that can make someone claim that it is "the best". Most will say The Masters is the "must win" tournament, even though it's the newest of the four. Organizations like the Golf Channel want to forget the Evian exists because they can't imagine a scenario where TWO of the biggest tournaments in the world are outside of the US. They also see money equals prestige. Money is nice, but that's all it is - winning the Women's Open doesn't get you any closer to the Hall of Fame, nor does it get you a longer invitation to play on Tour than the Evian does. I think I am old enough to not be told by the "elite media" what to think. The US Women's Open is the oldest current major, it doesn't have a company name next to it, there is no Pro-am in which the players have to entertain the corporate bigwigs. And is in no danger of going away like the Kraft and LPGA Championship were. I am pretty sure it will still be around when I no longer am. You think all those little Korean girls would have been inspired to learn golf had Se Ri Pak won the Du Maurier Classic 17 years ago? GC/NBC is carrying the Evian on network TV. They just bought the rights to the Women's British Open, and The Open Championship starting in two year. I think they are very much in favor of two majors being played outside of US.
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Post by urinara on Aug 7, 2015 3:49:25 GMT
"Korean": I rarely do this (in fact, this is the first time on this new message board), but I chose to remove some of your recent posts as not being appropriate for this community. Please try to stick to discussions about golf topics in the future. Thanks! If you remove my posts then you should remove everybody else posts, non golf related jpeg pictures. My words was not explicit. Stop being a racist and learn something for a change white boy.'white boy'? Isn't that a racist and condescending comment? I don't know your background at all but some of your posts are very offensive and controversial. I find that it is better to be cordial when posting on any kind of boards since you can't see their facial expressions or ascertain what kind tone they are using. It is your prerogative to post whatever you want but other board members like me may feel a little uncomfortable. This will be my last post regarding to this topic.
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Post by mr3putt on Aug 7, 2015 3:52:28 GMT
especially against the most bitter player to play on the LPGA Tour since Jan Stephensen. Anthony: I expect better from you now that you're being paid to blog. Get with the program....if you're going to update your avatar with a pic of Crusty....follow my lead.
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Post by mr3putt on Aug 7, 2015 4:15:19 GMT
Women golf 4 different majors = Career Grand Slam 5 different majors = Super Career Grand Slam 6 different majors = Holy Moly!
The LPGA created all this mess when Whan & the LPGA accepted the Evian's payola. It was the LPGA's fault that after many years the couldn't find a sponsor...for the BEST and MOST popular major, the ANA/KNC/Dinah.....LMAO.
Whan should have fired all the LPGA's Business Development Officers.
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