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Post by klpgaenglish on Aug 15, 2021 4:53:55 GMT
I have a couple questions. I hope I don't cause some heated debate. I'm new here and completely clueless, so I'll post and shut up and read.
1a. Where are the final round broadcast archives?
1b. If I asked you for the best Final Round dual, favorite player, or whatever-floats-your-boat, what would it be and where would the broadcasts be at so we and you can watch it over and over and reminisce about the good times?
2a. How do courses think they are going to be the next "Korea's Augusta National" without propaganda / documentaries / etc to create hype?
2b. What is your favorite course the KLPGA plays at typically every year (regardless of branding)? Why? Was it the first CC you remembered it's name?
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Post by philknj on Aug 15, 2021 6:44:47 GMT
Answers:
1a. To my knowledge (which is not complete), there is none. Until about 8 or 9 years ago, naver.com had a free archive of final round broadcasts going back to maybe 2008 ... and then it all vanished.
1b. I took up your challenge and did a search on Shin Ae Ahn's 2015 win at the ISU KLPGA Championship, which was a HUGE event, maybe the biggest media frenzy this tour ever had. Did a YT look-up with search:
안신애 KLPGA 챔피언십
All that came back was a 30-second news clip with her last putt:
2a. I'm not aware of any ROK course that has been compared to ANGC in any way, but the list below might be of use to you.
2b. If they ever go back there, it's the Weihai Point resort in China, which is shaped like a sword and juts out into the Yellow Sea.
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Post by don on Aug 15, 2021 7:51:55 GMT
For it to be Augusta Se Ri would have to build it ala Bobby Jones.
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Post by HappyFan on Aug 15, 2021 13:45:12 GMT
I don't really pay attention to courses in general, so unless the ladies play there year after year, I tend not to care about one course vs. another.
As for great events, I'm not sure what the favorites are among the Korean fans. I have a few that I recall. One that pops into my head is the 2009 Doosan Match Play Championship. The setup: So Yeon Ryu and He Yong Choi had mirror careers going. Ryu had won the 2006 Asian Games Gold medal the same year as Choi won the Bronze. They both were KLPGA rookies in 2008, but Choi edged Ryu out for the Rookie of the Year. They continued to match each other's records win for win until the Match Play event, where they met in the finals. They had both already played a semifinal in the morning. After 18 holes they were tied. They played an additional *nine* sudden death holes before Ryu finally put her away. The match had taken over seven hours to complete.
It was the turning point in their rivalry. After that, Ryu went on to become one of the top players on the KLPGA - she won four times in 2009 alone - before winning the 2011 US Women's Open and moving to the LPGA. Choi faded to becoming a third tier presence on the KLPGA. I'm not sure she ever won another tournament after that.
Another big one was the 2017 Hana Bank Championship, a KLPGA/LPGA co-sanctioned event, which featured a Sunday final group of the two most popular KLPGA golfers at the time, In Gee Chun and Sung Hyun Park, as well as a KLPGA star named Jin Young Ko. The mobs following that group were INSANE. Ko upset the big stars, winning an LPGA card in the process.
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Post by HappyFan on Aug 15, 2021 13:57:15 GMT
A painful one came at the 2013 Hanwha Classic. So Yeon Ryu had returned to play in her sponsor's event, and was dominating. With 10 holes to play, she had a six shot lead. But on the 9th, a KLPGAer by the name of Sei Young Kim holed out for eagle. Kim whittled So Yeon's lead down slowly, but she still had a three-shot lead when they reached the 17th.
Then Kim made an ace (!) to cut the lead to one! Ryu messed up on 18, they went to a playoff, and Kim got the improbable win. TWO hole-outs in ten holes. I've never quite forgiven her for doing that to So Yeon!
Another one: In Gee Chun lost in the finals of the 2013 Doosan Match Play to Ha Na Jang. But the next month she got her revenge. She birdied the final four holes at the Korea Women's Open to capture her first win by a shot. Those two events put In Gee on the map, and she went on to become one of the most beloved Korean golf stars of the decade.
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Post by SoYeonFan on Aug 15, 2021 19:22:48 GMT
A painful one came at the 2013 Hanwha Classic. So Yeon Ryu had returned to play in her sponsor's event, and was dominating. With 10 holes to play, she had a six shot lead. But on the 9th, a KLPGAer by the name of Sei Young Kim holed out for eagle. Kim whittled So Yeon's lead down slowly, but she still had a three-shot lead when they reached the 17th. Then Kim made an ace (!) to cut the lead to one! Ryu messed up on 18, they went to a playoff, and Kim got the improbable win. TWO hole-outs in ten holes. I've never quite forgiven her for doing that to So Yeon! I will remember that Tournament forever, So Yeon was also the Defending Champion. I kind of believe she was forced to play that Tournament by her Sponsor Hanwha. Either So Yeon had changed her Sponsor to Hanna Bank that year or the next year. After all those hole outs by Sei Young, a par by So Yeon on the last hole, she would have won in regulation. Their were other painful ones but that one and her Swinging Skirt back nine lost to Lydia Ko top the list.
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Post by rlspore on Aug 16, 2021 1:17:22 GMT
Another big one was the 2017 Hana Bank Championship, a KLPGA/LPGA co-sanctioned event, which featured a Sunday final group of the two most popular KLPGA golfers at the time, In Gee Chun and Sung Hyun Park, as well as a KLPGA star named Jin Young Ko. The mobs following that group were INSANE. Ko upset the big stars, winning an LPGA card in the process. Here's a photo I took of just part of the crowd following Sung Hyun Park during the Friday round of that 2017 Hanabank. Think they're approaching the 17th tee here, and Park was in the lead. She was paired with Minjee Lee and Min Sun Kim5, who you can see walking together behind Park. Hanabank is held at Sky72 course in Incheon, close to the airport. I'd flown in from Singapore overnight and went straight to the course in the morning after I'd arrived around 7am. Sky72 is quite a beautiful course. Only other one I've seen in Korea is the newly renamed LPGA International in Busan. I also don't pay too much attention to the names of the courses when I'm watching online - they have played a couple really nice ones this season though. Attachments:
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Post by klpgaenglish on Aug 17, 2021 0:40:06 GMT
Seems there are no famous holes or courses in Korea. Maybe because of the lack of marketing, history, and no documentaries. It's cheaper to have some golfer come to the studio in the middle of freezing winter and review her year than to have a legit quality documentary made about the year.
Seems 2021 was KLPGA very first trip to Rainbow Hills. Hope they go back there next year. The course could use some more flowers and a gallery of fans. LOL
Blue Heron Golf Club hosts the KLPGA Hite major every year since 2010 at least. It's coming in October. Oct 7 - 10.
Hanwa event (is this a major) is now at Jade Palace(8th) every year since 2017. It was at Golden Bay previously. It's coming in two weeks. Big purse.
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Post by don on Aug 17, 2021 1:09:32 GMT
I just read a paragraph or two about it but it sounds like most of the early courses in Korea didn’t survive the wars. I’m curious if anything of significance was ever built.
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Post by HappyFan on Aug 17, 2021 6:31:28 GMT
The only reason I even know that the Western courses are famous is when the talking heads tell me they are. I don't watch PGA, so these various courses that have hosted their Majors are pretty unknown to me. Other than Pebble Beach and maybe one or two others, I don't know any of them.
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Post by klpgaenglish on Aug 17, 2021 7:29:44 GMT
The only reason I even know that the Western courses are famous is when the talking heads tell me they are. I don't watch PGA, so these various courses that have hosted their Majors are pretty unknown to me. Other than Pebble Beach and maybe one or two others, I don't know any of them. When you watch the PGA and you see the crowds and dramatic finishes at various courses, it's hard to forget them even when only watching on TV.
There are articles after articles ranking holes and ranking courses. Youtubers going to various courses. I've seen various documentaries for example on Tiger Wood's amazing final rounds where other players commented.
Beautiful too. Courses decked out in flowers or blooming trees. As a child I remember seeing the beautiful colors of Riviera. Courses want prime slots in the spring to showcase their colors. The courses I've seen in Korea are only green. Flowers hard to find.
How hard would it really be to have a survey and ask the KLPGA players their favorite courses of the tour and which is hardest, especially considering their own strengths and weaknesses as players?
The "Dual at Rainbow Hills" would make for a great mid-winter one hour SBS golf program. Maybe I'm wrong, the golf seems really good, but it seems the KLPGA relies on beautiful players more than they should. They could promote events and courses and holes etc more with the help of SBS golf and not rely so much on pretty faces.
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Post by don on Aug 17, 2021 7:47:48 GMT
The only reason I even know that the Western courses are famous is when the talking heads tell me they are. I don't watch PGA, so these various courses that have hosted their Majors are pretty unknown to me. Other than Pebble Beach and maybe one or two others, I don't know any of them. Course names don’t matter on TV. If some are better it’s because they help display a players skill and ingenuity or are exceptionally beautiful. There are true golf historians and I’m not one but I think the following is all anybody should know. Shepard’s hit a sack of feathers with a stick on unfarmable dunes by the sea in Scotland. Some improvements were made because people wanted to gamble. Big cities in England built courses and applied their standard moral framework, bad shots should be punished. Scot’s didn’t like these courses and they argued. The golf ball improved because of wound up rubber. New ball meant rebuilding courses and the Scot’s prevailed; hazards protected the target. Worldwide course boom. Depression and war ended the “Golden Age”. Courses built for new housing by road construction crews. Bad shots were punished again because they wanted a player like Ben Hogan to win. Courses got green and soft to look like Augusta on color TVs. Throwback and restoration era (Camden Yards in baseball) also hit golf and hazards were back by the target. Golf ball goes like a rocket so courses got extended and narrowed for pros. Big data says hit away from all hazards anyway. Nobody knows what to do next.
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Post by HappyFan on Aug 17, 2021 16:42:11 GMT
I remember one player (Laura Davies?) hitting a shot into the flower bed at the Evian, and ripping it to pieces when she hit out of there LOL.
Riviera -- first time I ever heard that name. I only know Carnoustie because of that French dude. Other than St. Andrews, I don't think I knew any of the British courses before the ladies played there. I think the course they played the International Crown on in 2018 (in Korea) was fairly upscale -- it was designed by some PGA star I think.
Unless I've seen the course a lot, I rarely remember details about them. I'm always surprised how well folks recall so much about these places.
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Post by rlspore on Aug 18, 2021 3:49:04 GMT
Beautiful too. Courses decked out in flowers or blooming trees. As a child I remember seeing the beautiful colors of Riviera. Courses want prime slots in the spring to showcase their colors. The courses I've seen in Korea are only green. Flowers hard to find.
How hard would it really be to have a survey and ask the KLPGA players their favorite courses of the tour and which is hardest, especially considering their own strengths and weaknesses as players?
The "Dual at Rainbow Hills" would make for a great mid-winter one hour SBS golf program. Maybe I'm wrong, the golf seems really good, but it seems the KLPGA relies on beautiful players more than they should. They could promote events and courses and holes etc more with the help of SBS golf and not rely so much on pretty faces.
Sky72, site of the Hanabank in Incheon, has gorgeous beds of cosmos - fall blooming flower (tournament is in October each year) - one of the most memorable aspects of that course for me. I don't think of flowers at any other course except Augusta and the azaleas (and only because they promote so heavily with those), as far as I can remember. When I think of famous courses, I guess I think of certain holes - Par 3 7th at Pebble, 16th at Augusta - or general appearance - links style at Shinnecock, all the bunkers at Oakmont. Haven't been following KLPGA long enough to remember many courses other than the two I've been to in person (co-sanctioned events with LPGA). I've noticed from watching online that many have gorgeous mountain views, though. And are you sure the players haven't been asked questions about their favourite courses? Surely Korean golf writers and commentators are similar in that regard to Western media. Do you follow the Korean golf media enough to know? The focus on beautiful players is complex - Korean culture is pretty obsessed with appearance in general, of course. And surely this is a topic done to death already when discussing women's sports. But popularity of players seems based on ability and winning, surely, as much as looks - or at least a combination of many factors. Nearly all players have sponsorships, and there are many who wouldn't be classified as traditionally beautiful players. And everyone's idea of who the "pretty faces" are differs, right? Park Min Ji certainly is no beauty, but has become extremely popular this year. I first took note of her after her win in 2019, and then on Instagram - was impressed with her workout regime, she can do way more pullups than I can! (More players need to work out like her - Hye Jin, I'm looking at that baby fat on your belly every time you take a big swing) And Hana Jang is a perennial fav, surely more because of her strong play and personality (she too has the Korean beauty obsession - filtering her selfies into distorted characatures of "beauty", and so much makeup on the course). I think I pick my favourites based on ability, personality, looks - even their clothing sponsorships. Have started to follow Pak Ju Young this year because of her unusual BOB clothing. And fortunately she's backing it up with pretty good play to keep me interested.
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Post by klpgaenglish on Aug 18, 2021 5:38:45 GMT
Beautiful too. Courses decked out in flowers or blooming trees. As a child I remember seeing the beautiful colors of Riviera. Courses want prime slots in the spring to showcase their colors. The courses I've seen in Korea are only green. Flowers hard to find.
How hard would it really be to have a survey and ask the KLPGA players their favorite courses of the tour and which is hardest, especially considering their own strengths and weaknesses as players?
The "Dual at Rainbow Hills" would make for a great mid-winter one hour SBS golf program. Maybe I'm wrong, the golf seems really good, but it seems the KLPGA relies on beautiful players more than they should. They could promote events and courses and holes etc more with the help of SBS golf and not rely so much on pretty faces.
Sky72, site of the Hanabank in Incheon, has gorgeous beds of cosmos - fall blooming flower (tournament is in October each year) - one of the most memorable aspects of that course for me. I don't think of flowers at any other course except Augusta and the azaleas (and only because they promote so heavily with those), as far as I can remember. When I think of famous courses, I guess I think of certain holes - Par 3 7th at Pebble, 16th at Augusta - or general appearance - links style at Shinnecock, all the bunkers at Oakmont. Haven't been following KLPGA long enough to remember many courses other than the two I've been to in person (co-sanctioned events with LPGA). I've noticed from watching online that many have gorgeous mountain views, though. And are you sure the players haven't been asked questions about their favourite courses? Surely Korean golf writers and commentators are similar in that regard to Western media. Do you follow the Korean golf media enough to know? The focus on beautiful players is complex - Korean culture is pretty obsessed with appearance in general, of course. And surely this is a topic done to death already when discussing women's sports. But popularity of players seems based on ability and winning, surely, as much as looks - or at least a combination of many factors. Nearly all players have sponsorships, and there are many who wouldn't be classified as traditionally beautiful players. And everyone's idea of who the "pretty faces" are differs, right? Park Min Ji certainly is no beauty, but has become extremely popular this year. I first took note of her after her win in 2019, and then on Instagram - was impressed with her workout regime, she can do way more pullups than I can! (More players need to work out like her - Hye Jin, I'm looking at that baby fat on your belly every time you take a big swing) And Hana Jang is a perennial fav, surely more because of her strong play and personality (she too has the Korean beauty obsession - filtering her selfies into distorted characatures of "beauty", and so much makeup on the course). I think I pick my favourites based on ability, personality, looks - even their clothing sponsorships. Have started to follow Pak Ju Young this year because of her unusual BOB clothing. And fortunately she's backing it up with pretty good play to keep me interested. You make great points. I need to follow Korean golf media better, but so far I have to assume the deeper questions are in some periodical and not on TV. Beauty is definitely complex. Someone who is really pretty might not look so good with their hair up under a hat on Sunday afternoon.
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