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Post by HappyFan on Mar 23, 2021 16:57:42 GMT
Oh, hell no. Beth is arguing we need to have more bunny layouts on tour. Misguided Course Setups Hold Back the WomenSamples: “When I saw that we’ve only had five 60s on our tour, ever,” said Angela Stanford, “it made me want to throw up.” "There is no more cost-effective way for the LPGA to immediately increase the entertainment value of its tour than to set up more courses that are conducive to low scoring." (right, because making the courses easier means more Americans can compete, which will supposedly improve ratings). "Two years ago, when a 19-year-old Patty Tavatanakit made her fourth start as a professional, Golf Channel broke into its re-airing of the Irish Open to show Tavatanakit flirt with a 59 at the Thornberry Creek LPGA Classic, one of the rare tournaments on tour that regularly produced low scores because it didn’t limit long female hitters off the tee as so many do." Bingo. There's your hidden agenda. (oh, and it never occurs to her that maybe there's something wrong if a course is so easy that a 19-year-old rookie is flirting with 59? Just saying...).
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Post by legitimategolf on Mar 23, 2021 17:25:55 GMT
Do it. The LPGA all-time scoring record book is full of non-Americans. The only effective strategy for producing the desired result at this point would be barring certain people from entering tournaments.
I'd love to hear the entirety of Angela Stanford's thoughts on What Is Really Going On. I bet it would be very entertaining.
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Post by jumpcut on Mar 23, 2021 17:30:21 GMT
Beth Ann referenced and/or interviewed 19 LPGA players in this exhaustive exhausting article. But she couldn't find the time to include even one player who competes under the Korean flag.
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Post by legitimategolf on Mar 23, 2021 17:32:56 GMT
Wow, it is a long article and chock full of stats. Can't believe Lydia bringing out the old "But Anne van Dam!" argument.
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Post by SoYeonFan on Mar 23, 2021 19:15:55 GMT
They are pulling out all stops for the USA golfers to win more Tournaments. No golf course should be set up for how well you score on par fives. Oh! Never mind, waiting for the KLPGA Tour to began.
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Post by sharrow on Mar 23, 2021 21:04:38 GMT
Eh, I can see the argument as far as making it more aligned with the men's tour. But, that's not what I want.. lots of driver>wedge holes. Boring! There's a happy medium I think though.. I wouldn't mind seeing a few more drivable par 4s.I usually like the challenge the par 5s often present, big woods/driver off the deck are always fun.
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Post by philknj on Mar 24, 2021 1:50:58 GMT
Gee, I recall the LPGA being ridiculed when The Hulk scored a one on a par-4 of about 221 yards.
Well. with the LPGA dark for so long, Beth Ann had a lot of time on her hands ... and used all of it ... and she still left out the most fundamental point of golf: Regardless of course length, you have to post a score. She touches on this briefly, saying a higher percentage of PGA guys are under par at cut time compared to the LPGAers. Really? Who gives a crap about the cut line or the lousy players way below it? How are the women suffering on these "long" courses? From the LPGA stats, here are the number of players averaging under 71 for an entire season:
2019 - 39 2018 - 30 2017 - 38 2016 - 24 2015 - 16 2014 - 16 2013 - 18 2012 - 11 2011 - 7 2010 - 9
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Post by don on Mar 24, 2021 12:41:25 GMT
This isn't going to increase viewership regardless of whether the idea has merit.
1) Joint LPGA/PGA tour events. 2) A season long team format on the LPGA that establishes rivalries, drama and interest further down the scoreboard. (In other words totally rethink the structure of the tour into a team sport.) 3) US vs South Korea match play event.
If scoring was so important people would watch mini golf.
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Post by legitimategolf on Mar 24, 2021 13:36:51 GMT
Eh, I can see the argument as far as making it more aligned with the men's tour. But, that's not what I want.. lots of driver>wedge holes. Boring! There's a happy medium I think though.. I wouldn't mind seeing a few more drivable par 4s.I usually like the challenge the par 5s often present, big woods/driver off the deck are always fun. This is a good point. The blanket assumption is that the public likes seeing a lot of driver-wedge. I think that is delusional. I also find it boring, and what I'd prefer to see in men's golf is actually MORE of having to hit woods into par 5's and even long par 4's. To be fair though I think they are running out of land, and prefer not to keep lengthening courses. There does seem to be a disparity between the distances gains in men's/women's game. Like, there hasn't been the same trend in women's golf, of employing launch monitors and actively seeking to increase speed. That is not to say there can't be though. I see players like Sei Young and Sung Hyun Park as a new wave of long hitters in women's golf. Previously to hit it far in women's golf you had to be really bulky like Laura Davies or Lincicome or else jump up and swing out of your stance like Lexi Thompson. I wish there were more sweet-swinging long hitters a la Kim and Park, but it doesn't really pay to hit it far in today's LPGA. I think as a group the whole LPGA could potentially shift priorities and hit it farther. But to incentivize distance, the Association would have to lengthen, not shorten, their courses.
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Post by legitimategolf on Mar 24, 2021 13:38:38 GMT
This isn't going to increase viewership regardless of whether the idea has merit. 1) Joint LPGA/PGA tour events. 2) A season long team format on the LPGA that establishes rivalries, drama and interest further down the scoreboard. (In other words totally rethink the structure of the tour into a team sport.) 3) US vs South Korea match play event. 4) Michelle. Wie. West.
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Post by HappyFan on Mar 24, 2021 16:39:08 GMT
I'd love to hear the entirety of Angela Stanford's thoughts on What Is Really Going On. I bet it would be very entertaining. How about a weekly podcast? 'Things That Make Angela Sick'. Hey, it might work?
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Post by HappyFan on Mar 24, 2021 16:47:27 GMT
It's a weird article in a lot of ways, and not just because it's her usual euro/amerocentric viewpoint. She talks about wanting to create easier clubs into various greens. OK, I guess I can see that; Inbee Park has had to hit a lot of fairway woods into greens when courses get wet. But then she mentions making the courses easier off the tee. So long hitters get to hit into greens with shorter clubs, AND they get to bomb it indiscriminately off the tee as well? Isn't that two dimensions of bunnying up the course?
Also, if she democratizes the tournaments, what is she going to do when one mediocre golfer after another wins, and the notion of star players is upended? Would she prefer to have 30 winners a year and no stars? And if the Majors are the only place where the stars can shine, why would someone tune in the rest of the year? Isn't that neutering one of the LPGA's great strengths: that they get a large % of top players to play week after week?
I still say that most events should aim for a winning score of between 8 and 12 under. That gives you some birdies, but not a scoring average of 68 for the field in any given round. Maybe 16 under at the worst; but if it gets to 20 under, they need to investigate what went wrong with the setup that week!
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Post by don on Mar 24, 2021 17:25:06 GMT
This isn't going to increase viewership regardless of whether the idea has merit. 1) Joint LPGA/PGA tour events. 2) A season long team format on the LPGA that establishes rivalries, drama and interest further down the scoreboard. (In other words totally rethink the structure of the tour into a team sport.) 3) US vs South Korea match play event. 4) Michelle. Wie. West. Probably has to get Nike off her back. It's def not because she misses the post round interviews that could help carry the broadcast that she mails in.
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Post by philknj on Mar 24, 2021 17:27:19 GMT
The LPGA already plays a worthwhile short course (Seaview) where these players can reach all three par-fives in two shots, but I haven't seen this tour getting any positive buzz from that. Length, whether its short or long, is not the only issue there ... yes, many players have torn it up, but many others have gotten killed by the bay winds and small, dried-out undulating greens.
Frankly, I have no confidence that the LPGA has the expertise to "shorten" a course to provide a genuine risk/reward payoff ... is this the same leadership that thought a 221-yard par-4 was a good idea? I looked up Director of Rules Sue Witters on Wikipedia ... nada, zip, zilch. Then I looked up Ayako Okamoto, who sets up a lot courses for the JLPGA ... 62 pro wins.
Speaking of the JLPGA, check out last Sunday's video below beginning at 42:46 ... Sakuchan approaches the par-4 15th of 277 yards, which has water running down the right side for at least 100 yards. It sounded like the broadcasters fell out of their chairs talking about her choice of "driver" ... and had heart attacks watching her ball flight down the right side ... I won't give away what happened. Oh yeah, many extra points to Koiwai for taking off her jacket before that bodacious swing.
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Post by sharrow on Mar 25, 2021 13:51:43 GMT
Eh, I can see the argument as far as making it more aligned with the men's tour. But, that's not what I want.. lots of driver>wedge holes. Boring! There's a happy medium I think though.. I wouldn't mind seeing a few more drivable par 4s.I usually like the challenge the par 5s often present, big woods/driver off the deck are always fun. This is a good point. The blanket assumption is that the public likes seeing a lot of driver-wedge. I think that is delusional. I also find it boring, and what I'd prefer to see in men's golf is actually MORE of having to hit woods into par 5's and even long par 4's. To be fair though I think they are running out of land, and prefer not to keep lengthening courses. There does seem to be a disparity between the distances gains in men's/women's game. Like, there hasn't been the same trend in women's golf, of employing launch monitors and actively seeking to increase speed. That is not to say there can't be though. I see players like Sei Young and Sung Hyun Park as a new wave of long hitters in women's golf. Previously to hit it far in women's golf you had to be really bulky like Laura Davies or Lincicome or else jump up and swing out of your stance like Lexi Thompson. I wish there were more sweet-swinging long hitters a la Kim and Park, but it doesn't really pay to hit it far in today's LPGA. I think as a group the whole LPGA could potentially shift priorities and hit it farther. But to incentivize distance, the Association would have to lengthen, not shorten, their courses. SYK and SHP are two of my faves. I think a big part of the problem is that the LPGA stubbornly pursues the stereotypical dudebro boy weekend sports fan audience and the ancient art of scoring TV network slots. Yea, thet like 'bombs' and all that.. but, they're never going to be a profitable audience. There's enough sports targeted that way already anyway. They need the more passionate golf fans/nerds, many who play the game and appreciate the details.. otherwise those who just find the players interesting, and don't tune into golf to watch bombs. They need to offer more data and content. At least get shot tracking set up and strokes gained stats.. all basic 'serious golf' stuff. Get on GolfTV. Get in the 21st century ffs. I mean, the LPGA website hasn't changed much, functionality-wise in, lol what.. 10-20 years? It's crazy. Yea, the course setups could be better, but there's so many better things they could work on.. Ah well, here's hoping we get a new commish who's a bit more with the times.
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