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Post by mr3putt on Aug 9, 2017 0:58:13 GMT
Yani's probably closer to Level 8 Toast than Level 7. She might win one more LPGA tournament if the all the stars align, but it's more likely she'll win an LET event and never win again on the LPGA Tour. Last year Michelle looked like Level 7 or 8 as well, but she might be at Level 2 or 3 right now. I would not be surprised if she won again. Two years ago, In-Kyung looked like a Level 5 or 6, but now she's at Level 1. Right now I'd say Lydia is at Level 5 and trending towards Level 6. By this time next year she could be heading towards Level 7. LMAO OK...this is the POST OF THE YEAR. You should send this to the people at the Golfweek .....it's a much better and a simplistic form of ranking vs. the Sagarin system. KUDOS!
I assume you do something creative to pay the bills....don't tell me you're bean counter or chip head.
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Post by don on Aug 9, 2017 1:18:04 GMT
Yani will be back
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Post by mr3putt on Aug 9, 2017 1:30:38 GMT
I was wondering where fanofseri's crack pipe was...thanks for finding it and sucking on it....what are you smoking?...some Jamaican Gold?
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Post by HappyFan on Aug 9, 2017 5:54:08 GMT
I meant her Sunday stats in years past. I agree that she's playing much better on the weekends this year. I don't think one can look at total putts in isolation. If her GIR percentage is higher, one will usually have more putts. Staying the same with more greens means better putting. The putts per GIR stat can provide more insight. Unfortunately, without ShotLink it's hard to tell if it's better putting, or hitting approach shots closer to the hole. However, given that I've seen pretty much every one of her televised putts over the past six years, my gut feeling is that her short putting has greatly improved. My definition of great includes lots of wins. Top 10's are fantastic if they're accompanied by a lot of wins. There are dozens of excellent golfers who aren't great because they don't win enough. Matt Kucher anyone? Sergio? So Yeon has 5 wins on the LPGA in 6 seasons ('12 - '17). That's not greatness. Heck, Shanshan has 7 wins in 6 seasons. Sei Young has 6 wins in 3 seasons. Lexi has 8 wins in 6 full seasons. Great players also? If I had to give her a letter grade, it would be 'Incomplete' at this point. I do believe her best days are ahead of her. Heck, she's only 27. Karrie won 11 times after her 30th birthday. Who IS great? If your definition of great = Hall of Fame material I think you are being too exclusive, personally. Yeah, I would say Thompson, Feng and SYK are great players. Not sure any of them - or Ryu - are potential HOFers. I would also say having achieved a number one ranking should be factored in. Ryu is one of the few women in tour history who has done that. JMO.
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Post by HappyFan on Aug 9, 2017 6:01:24 GMT
That's a good summary. I'm certainly not questioning her skills and consistency. She certainly has enough of both to become great. However, there are a ton of players that have become #1 in the world (and didn't stay there), that I wouldn't consider great (yet). Luke Donald, Jordon Spieth, Jason Day, DJ, Adam Scott, Ariya, and perhaps even Lydia. Who by your definition IS great if even Ko isn't? As for Ryu: How many players have had 10+ top tens in each of their first six years on tour, managed two Majors before the age of 27, and achieved the #1 ranking? And she's starting to win more often, because she dedicated herself to getting better and thus risked what she already had, another hallmark of greatness.
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Post by argonne69 on Aug 9, 2017 14:21:09 GMT
Win more often? You're getting ahead of yourself. So Yeon has two wins this season, her first in years. IK has three wins this season. Is IK greater than So Yeon? Ariya had 4 wins last season alone. Is she greater than So Yeon?
I don't believe achieving #1 is a mark of greatness. One must hold it for an extended period of time. Otherwise, Luke Donald, Adam Scott, and Ariya would all be considered great, and I don't believe that's the case.
As noted, I don't believe top 10's equate with greatness, either. There are dozens of journeymen and journeywomen golfers who cash a lot of big paychecks with top 10 finishes. The great ones close the deal more often than not for the win. A great player has to average close to two wins a year over their career. Annika won 72 times on the LPGA in 15 seasons (4.8 wps). Lorena won 27 times in 8 seasons (3.375 wps)
In the category of active players, I'd say Inbee is great (1.6 wps). OK, Lydia is there as well (3.5 wps), but this latest stumble has waffling a bit. If she bounces back and starts winning on a regular basis, she'll definitely stay in the club.
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Post by mnmlistgolfr on Aug 9, 2017 15:39:34 GMT
Player A: 9 seasons on LPGA Tour- 11 wins (2 Majors), 102 Top Tens, $12.1 million in earnings, Rolex #1 for 25 weeks
Player B: 6 seasons on LPGA Tour- 5 wins (2 Majors), 73 Top Tens, $8.3 million in earnings, Rolex #1 for 7 weeks
Player C: 5 seasons on LPGA Tour- 11 wins (2 Majors), 56 Top Tens, $6.1 million in earnings, Rolex # for 25 weeks
Which of these players (if any) are "great?"
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Post by argonne69 on Aug 9, 2017 15:57:58 GMT
Player C (Jiyai). Great. Double digit wins, including 2 majors, in only 5 seasons. Averaging 2 wins a season over 5 years is pretty d*mn good.
Player B (So Yeon): Excellent, but not great. Yet. Only 1 win from August 2012 through April 2017. 'Best is yet to come.
Player A (Stacy). Excellent, but not great. Hasn't won in 3 years.
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Post by mnmlistgolfr on Aug 9, 2017 16:27:38 GMT
Player C (Jiyai). Great. Double digit wins, including 2 majors, in only 5 seasons. Averaging 2 wins a season over 5 years is pretty d*mn good. Player B (So Yeon): Excellent, but not great. Yet. Only 1 win from August 2012 through April 2017. 'Best is yet to come. Player A (Stacy). Excellent, but not great. Hasn't won in 3 years. So ignore the last 3 years for Stacy... Lewis: 6 years on Tour, 11 wins, 2 Majors, 74 Top Tens, $8.6 million, 25 weeks at #1. Shin: 5 years on Tour, 11 wins, 2 Majors, 56 Top Tens, $6.1 million, 25 weeks at #1. or let's ignore the last 4 years and compare apples to apples... 2009-13 LPGA Tour stats Lewis: 8 wins, 2 Majors, 56 Top Tens, $6.0 million, 4 weeks at #1 Shin: 11 wins, 2 Majors, 56 Top Tens, $6.1 million, 25 weeks at #1 Give Jiyai the slight edge, but I don't see how one's great and the other isn't.
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Post by mnmlistgolfr on Aug 9, 2017 16:33:58 GMT
argonne69Do you rank "Great" above "Excellent?" And what's the difference? If I ask people how they're doing and they say "great" or "excellent," I would think the person who said "excellent" was having a better day.
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Post by argonne69 on Aug 9, 2017 16:48:38 GMT
You can't simply ignore years. Greats don't go 3 years without winning.
Yes, to me Great is 10. Excellent is 8 to 9. Otherwise, how do you differentiate between the greatest of all time, and simply great?
Also, I generally don't look at money. Purses have continued to increase. What was Stacy's average win good for vs. Jiyai's?
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Post by mnmlistgolfr on Aug 9, 2017 17:18:38 GMT
You can't simply ignore years. Greats don't go 3 years without winning.
Yes, to me Great is 10. Excellent is 8 to 9. Otherwise, how do you differentiate between the greatest of all time, and simply great? Also, I generally don't look at money. Purses have continued to increase. What was Stacy's average win good for vs. Jiyai's? Greats don't give up playing against the highest level of competition either. Also, Inbee went four years between her first and second win. Irrelevant. 2009 was Stacy's and Jiyai's rookie year, so the prize money comparison was for the same five year period. $6.148M for Shin, versus $6.031M for Lewis. Also, three of Jiyai's wins came in 2008 as a non-member, so between 2009 and 2013, they both had eight wins.
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Post by HappyFan on Aug 9, 2017 17:20:10 GMT
I think my great = your excellent. I just can't accept this tour has only 1.5 "great" players. Perhaps this ranking system explains my thinking: Greatest of your generation vs. HOF quality vs. great vs. star If anyone gets greatest of the generation it would be Inbee, but I could consider Ochoa depending on what the time parameters are for 'generation'. Trying not to drag retired players into the conversation. Inbee (and Webb, though not so much now, and Inkster, ditto) are the HOF quality players. Maybe you could throw Kerr and Davies in there. But none of them except perhaps Inbee and Kerr are anywhere close to HOF quality at this moment. Great Lydia and Jutanugarn have accomplished too much in their brief time on tour to not be considered great. Age factors in, too. I would put Thompson, Feng, Lewis, maybe Pettersen (not so much now for the last two), Ryu, Sei Young and Ha Na if she were still here. NYC and Ya Ni were once here but have fallen so far off the charts I'm reluctant to put them even in the star category at this point; ditto Creamer. Star In Gee, Inky, Sung Hyun Park are all capable of reaching great status, but aren't there yet. Henderson probably in this category, too, although I think she is overrated. There are probably a few former greats who might make this category as well. Amy is probably here as well, since she plays so well at Majors, but I think she needs to close the deal at least once before I start to elevate her. Might put Minjee in here, too.
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Post by HappyFan on Aug 9, 2017 17:26:08 GMT
I'd also add that there are a number of players who have been great or stars but dropped down, or players who are on the cusp of being stars but not there yet. Hyo Joo Kim is a good example. Nearly won Evian at age 16. Did win it before her 20th birthday. Two other wins as well. But she struggles at times. I'm not sure she's even a star by my definition at this point, but I could see her becoming a big force on tour given what she has accomplished.
Mirim Lee and MJ Hur are also tantalizingly close to being stars, and for Phil's sake, I'll throw Mi Hyang Lee in there as well.
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Post by mnmlistgolfr on Aug 9, 2017 23:45:37 GMT
I think we can all agree that there are...
Great Rounds: breaking 60, or low 60s in a Major, eg. Furyk's 58, Annika's 59, Hyo Joo's 61, Henrik's 63
Great Victories: anything record breaking or dramatic, eg. 97 Masters, 2000 US Open, 2005 USWO
Great Stretches: Multiple wins over several months, eg. Byron Nelson 11 straight, Ariya 5 wins from May to August last year
Great Seasons: Usually includes great stretches, but multiple wins (preferably 3+) in one season.
Great Runs: Several years in a row with multiple victories, eg. Tiger 99-03, 05-09; Lydia 14-16
Great Careers: 10+ years with more great seasons than good, average, or bad seasons
So who's a Great Player? It's someone who has accomplished all of the above.
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